mmm, the plot thickens!

Thanks Richard. Might call CASA tomorrow about this letter.

I'll keep any updates I find flowing into this forum.

Richard,

Interesting about this letter. In my dealings with Philip this was never mentioned. I found it very difficult to work out all the requirements and exemptions and I am not sure CASA has a good interpretation of what is required. To be honest I was getting close to the too hard basket on this one.

Matt,

I would be very interested in any result you come across regarding this. You might also ask him about the following.

ABC Technology quarter recently screened an episode regarding UAVs. It included a CASA rep (not Philip but I cannot remember his name) discussing the laws of commercial UAV flight. He suggested that CASA are currently in the process of changing the laws to make it easier for unamanned aircraft under a certain size to fly legally. He didn't stipulate the size or the changes except that it was going to be easier

To set up commercially at this stage you are looking at not only your PPL but also months of document development and CASA fees up to $10k. The problem I have is if you go through this process will these suggested law changes make this process a waste of time and money. It is an issue I wanted to clarify with Philip.

Anyway thanks Matt and Richard for keeping this going.

Cheers

Phil

Gidday Guys

I have been dealing with Phil Presgrove in the Queensland Region of CASA. He is the coordinator for UAVs and is a useful point of contact. His phone number in CASA is 3144 7448. I have a date to meet with him as soon as my present IREX class is over at the end of this month. I hope he will be giving me some definitive answers on the present CASA requirements. I have an idea of what is going on, but I wont post anything until I get a definite answer. You can expect that immediately after the meeting.

If you are desperate for an answer before that, I suggest you give Phil a call and talk to him directly. At least a flood of phone calls might convince CASA that real people out here need some real answers. I know that CASA is well into developing a syllabus on UAV training and aeronautical knowledge, but I wouldn't hold my breath for an outcome on that one.

Also, not only will each individual require a 'licence' to operate a UAV for commercial purposes, but the company operating the UAVs will also have to have an approved operations manual setting out the procedures to be employed by that company to ensure that all legislative requirements are met. That is going to be another hurdle and probably an expensive one.

Bob

Really appreciate the help Bob,

It is hard for us (well I should say me) with little knowledge to interpret all the in's and out's here of the CASA requirements. In the end UAV controllers are more likely to come from a hobby background rather than full scale piloting. I think we really need an industry intermediary with experience in CASA regulations to move forward.

From what Philip has described to me the PPL is definitely the easier part. As you say it is the controllers cert and operators cert that are the bigger hurdle (and cost). One step at a time though.

I notice that the Certificate III in Aviation (Remote Pilot) has now been detailed, identifying the units of training required. I assume Philip has been heavily involved in development of as much. I will send him an email but it might be interesting to ask the relevance of this course as it relates to CASA legislation. At this stage it doesn't look as though the competencies are transferable to PPL so I am not sure of it's relevance. However I would be interested in whether this course is being developed in line with any proposed legislation changes as mentioned by CASA on ABC recently.

Again thanks very much for getting involved. We can definitely use someone with your experience.

Regards

Phil

Just got off the phone with Philip at CASA and he said it is not necessary to have sat the BAK exam or have a logbook if one wishes to sit the PPL exam simply for UAV licensing. He said many schools have cottoned on the need for us to sit the PPL exam while some schools have not. So I guess the best way to go about it, is to speak to a school first and check that you can just rock up and sit the PPL exam and whether they will need to see a exemption letter or not. If the school is asking to see your logbook, one can call Philip and he will write you a letter. You will need an ARN from CASA regardless.
As for the IR requirement, one would simply need to write Philip a letter stating operations will be line of sight only and he will reply with an exemption letter. While I have not yet flown my UAV, this information seems a bit overkill since beyond about 500ft, I doubt anyone could see something so small and normal aircraft aren't permitted below 500ft anyway. Will be interesting to see which side of the fence this ruling falls on in the future.
I couldn't get much else out of him regarding timelines and new training requirements except that something will change in the future. Hope that helps someone.
Well, back to the books..

Excellent Matt!

Based on what you have gathered from Philip looks like I might go ahead with the learning material supplied by Bob and start studying. I might write to Philip asking for the exemptions letters as a matter of course. Given there is no mention of any of this in the documents and processes I have received from CASA I would like this in writing before proceeding.

As a side note, I know quite a few companies that have purchased UAVs for aerial work and have been advised by the supplier that they do not need commercial licences. Philip quickly set me straight on this one! Can I ask without naming any names has your company then already gone through the full operator/controller certs and all the lengthy flight manuals that need to be produced?

Cheers

Phil

Yes I thought of just getting the letter too as a matter of reference but held off for now. My company has started the operators process but its taking a fair while. I'm not sure where they are at, but I imagine it is costing alot of money. Hopefully a Controllers license doesn't cost much, I have no idea, do you?
Coincidentally when I emailed Philip yesterday I got an out of office reply and when I spoke to him today, he was at my companies office meeting the chief operator! Funny twist of fate that one.
Good luck with your studies. If I hear anything else i will put it up here.

Philip originally stated around $7k to set up the company if my memory serves me. (thats just CASA application fees, can't remember UAV controllers/OC breakdown). I cannot imagine much change out of $10k when you look at the documentation required.

Sounds like you get the good end of the deal just having to get your PPL!

Don't forget to factor in medical. Class 2 is what was stated to me which was a pain but I remember looking at the legislation and talking to Philip about this. From memory there is another exemption or downgraded option that may be done at a local GP.

Also got to get the IREX exemption. Fees all round for these.

Anyway we might be getting closer to a better understanding. I might have to write this all out.

Look forward to Bobs meeting with Philip at the end of the month.

Hi All
I am really glad i found this forum and topic.
I too am trying to get info on commercial UAV operation. I was quite surprised to find that currently you need a PPL to fly a UAV.
So thanks for asking the question and it seems you asked the right people.
I look forward to getting more info on the subject.
For the moment I will concentrate on perfecting my flying skills.
Jon

plam wrote: ....

Anyway we might be getting closer to a better understanding. I might have to write this all out.

Look forward to Bobs meeting with Philip at the end of the month.

Hi All,

Thanks to everyone for their input on this very interesting topic. The last post was made almost 3 months ago so I am curious as to whether anyone has an update to where things are now at.

Michael M